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Author Topic: DIY EAR 834p phono stage - a short evaluation/ test with those chinese PCBs  (Read 209403 times)
spaceistheplace
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« Reply #960 on: May 31, 2017, 06:50:05 AM »

Yeah, I know that but I've looked at all the thread responses.  John's list is the back bone of the build in most respects. But to take a few random examples that I have noted for a list with points of interest:-

P8 #108 :- Adding resistors to heater lines  keeping hum potential lower.
P10 #146 :- Valuation of various tubes tried.
p42 #618 :- Tweaked  RIAA values R & C.


P8 #108 : This was to reduce heater voltage... he did it at the amp side not the supply side as is usually. The noise reduction comment was about two resistors on the same line, and it being wiser to not put them in a series like that but one on + and one on - rail. That guys build was pretty messy at first with no chassis so there's no telling what the story is with that completely.

P10 #146 : I remember reading the same thing, re: 6N2P and figuring it's not worth it (until I came back around just recently) bc: 1. You risk disrupting the magic 2. You will permanently modify the board if you snip the 9th pin (if you don't have room for an adapter) or have to get new tube sockets to go back to 12ax7. 3. ( Cost of the adapters ) + (Cost of 6N2P ) + ( Shipping ) = Roughly same cost of low noise selected new production 12ax7 from Tubedepot.

6 of one half a dozen of the other.... one says not much difference. If cost is a major issue, I don't think you are considering this build in the first place..... would be much better to get a little project or bellari or something.

Like rfgumby commented, this circuit was designed around the original tubes... and they'll last a really long time. Messing too much with that might defeat the purpose of an 834 clone altogether... perhaps some of that magic won't be there. I read the same page and thought no one is coming out saying it's BETTER than a 12ax7. I'm not a tube expert and I don't understand a lot of the info on a tube data sheet.... and there's a lot of figures to consider.

So, bottom line is I don't know enough to confidently suggest a 6N2P and it would require additional modifications to the parts list to account for the grid resistors, and just generally confuse people.... I wanted to keep the build guide as linear of an approach as possible.

Plus, like I said, grid resistors change with 6N2P.... the people who couldn't hear a difference were listening to a distorted RIAA curve with the 6N2P.. and couldn't hear that either... which should make you wonder.


p42 #618: The RIAA Modifications you are referencing are already in the build guide.


I took on the almost-asking-to-be-suicidal task of rereading the entire thread and copying the most relevant information, page by page, for the build guide. I then organized it by topic in a giant word doc, ran it by a number of people here and elsewhere, and then assembled the parts list yada yada.... and then put it all in one doc with pics etc.... still a work in progress in a few areas.

Before midway through I was thinking to myself, why the $*#(I)& do I get myself into %&#$*()@_ like this %*()#@)%#@.

So, I'm not saying don't read it, by all means go for it if you like that sort of thing... but you can sleep soundly knowing you have not missed any gems by just reading the build guide.
« Last Edit: May 31, 2017, 07:03:51 AM by spaceistheplace » Logged

Jay
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« Reply #961 on: May 31, 2017, 08:24:26 PM »

Ho hum more rewiring to do  evil anyway I'm sure it will bring benefits  angel
Will wait a bit longer till Iv'e done the repairs to the new Arm
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James.
Decca's, clones & home brewed HiFi

I am defiantly wired differently
spaceistheplace
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« Reply #962 on: June 01, 2017, 01:14:16 PM »

Ho hum more rewiring to do  evil anyway I'm sure it will bring benefits  angel
Will wait a bit longer till Iv'e done the repairs to the new Arm

Since you already have a complete build it might be wisest to wait for Robert's new PSU and do it all at once if you were considering it.

If not for the build guide I'd probably have done the same.
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Jay
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« Reply #963 on: June 01, 2017, 05:09:15 PM »

I'm not chomping at the bit to do this as mine is still sounding really nice grin

& the boards are not vey good quality when it comes to re soldering etc.

It's been mentioned that the standard caps might only last about a 1,000 hrs & better ones are available that last longer, I might also do them at the same time, so I perhaps should make it a winter project wink
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James.
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I am defiantly wired differently
spaceistheplace
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« Reply #964 on: June 02, 2017, 12:05:45 AM »

Ah. You folks hide in the winter. Those of us closer to the equator hide in the summer!

The caps in the build guide are 10,000 hours or more types. If you can get higher voltage rated, operating at around 2/3 of the max voltage on the circuit, you can extend their usable life considerably. That would be 450V in our case. So, a 10k hour cap should last even longer than indicated.
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GrooveGrinder
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« Reply #965 on: June 02, 2017, 07:53:54 AM »

Quote
Since you already have a complete build it might be wisest to wait for Robert's new PSU and do it all at once if you were considering it.
Quote
I'm not chomping at the bit to do this as mine is still sounding really nice & the boards are not vey good quality when it comes to re soldering etc.
Blank boards don't cost very much... even with resistors isn't bad at all...
Particularly if you buy just the main board.

There's a LOT to be said for taking your time to build a second "improved version" using another board...
all while not losing a moment of listening to the present one!
Save for that brief moment to swap one for the other, when ready...
 ropies_2cents
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Greg

De gustibus non est disputandum
GrooveGrinder
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« Reply #966 on: June 02, 2017, 08:26:33 AM »

For example my linn joined the arm ground to the TT chassis and mains ground and connecting the external arm ground caused a ground loop. My new setup remove the arm ground and connected to the SUT ground and on to star ground removed all hum loops.
When I did my AR-XA full Merrill-mod build about a decade ago... (virtually nothing AR left save for top plate and driven platter)
It was a very hum prone table, due to many different issues...
I totally isolated the motor ground (via adding an IEC and ground wire to motor case, then physically isolating the motor from everything else conductive) then connecting all the other grounds together, to the grounding wire-to-the-preamp..
Arm ground (SME) top plate ground (steel) and the ground wire in contact with the bearing (maker felt it drained static electricity) all to a star point in/under the table, to the grounding wire.

That left the RCA cables isolated from the rest... so armtube/arm structure, right up to the cartridge pins
grounded together with the rest via TT grounding wire... cartridge pins to RCAs to preamp RCAs...
Then motor (safety) via an IEC to the wall socket.

No more issues.... including the afforementioned radio station pickup..
FWIW
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Greg

De gustibus non est disputandum
GrooveGrinder
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« Reply #967 on: June 02, 2017, 09:05:45 AM »

Gee whiiiizzzzzzzz... miss a couple of days, and there's 4 new pages to read... lol..

Jay... keep reminding us how good it sounds.... keeps the motivation high!

Quote
Went to buy the TDK IEC ac volts input module,
What does that do for you?

Quote
G- when will you begin your own assembly saga? I'm eager to see how it all comes together.
Still a ways out from that...
Unexpected stuff came up this week and I've been swamped, to make matters worse...

As of now, parts are still trickling in (the oriental connection), and I'm still determining the last items I'll need...
The build guide has been VERY helpful!!! Particularly with trying to marshal those items at a glance (or 2)...

The GOOD NEWS is, that I found my soldering equipment last week!!!!  WOO!
After multiple attempts crawling around in 3 storage units and opening boxes, no luck.... It was getting me demoralized.
Wouldn't you know... it turned up unexpectedly under my nose....

It's also an ongoing obstacle that the only area I can use as a workspace has to be shared with higher priority projects... IE: going thru stuff to get out of those storages....

I plan to sit down in earnest next week (was supposed to be this week) to determine and write out each last part, as well as the steps to take in order.....
(the grounding clarifications removes a major stumbling block too)

I'll get there...
Thanks for asking!
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Greg

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Jay
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« Reply #968 on: June 02, 2017, 10:41:56 AM »

GG, if I were to build a second full on 834, would it be a sensible Idea to use a Completely blank new "Blue board" much cheeper than the DOUK one & Roberts new psu board, If that proves to be a success which I'm sure it will.

I could also Sit down & listen to My wonderful sounding 834 Whilst contemplating, in, by then my retirement (less than 2 months to go) a new 834  cheesy

Hear in the UK we hide in both winter & summer, when we want Sun we go somewhere else wink

Then there might be an 834 for sale wink wink
« Last Edit: June 02, 2017, 03:42:37 PM by Jay » Logged

James.
Decca's, clones & home brewed HiFi

I am defiantly wired differently
Jessica_K
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« Reply #969 on: June 02, 2017, 08:03:52 PM »

I have done some measurements of my amp with the RIAA values I last recommended (slightly different to the standard ERA RIAA) and the quick sweep of frequencies between 20-20K shows it to be flat within 0.5db. That is well within measurement error from a fast sweep.  I will be doing a slow sweep over the weekend where I can compensate for the errors and hone in. I expecting it to be within 0.1db between 100hz and 20k and depending on valve also flat below 100hz down to 20

Oh and it sounds really good too, huge detail and air between everything. And this is before the new PSU

Robert
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Linn/Vinyl Passion LP/VP12, Audiomods S6, ART 9xa, GL75, Linn Ittok, ST33sa

Alpha2delta PS1, PSU1's Phono, LL1931 SUT’s. Alpha2delta PRE1, Transcription audio heaven 211 (211 SET)

PMC GB1,s
spaceistheplace
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« Reply #970 on: June 02, 2017, 10:10:23 PM »

Thanks Robert. I've added that to the guide and will post the other measurements as well as they come in.

I agree on the attributes of "Air" and "detail".

Many said the original 834 sounded "syrupy" and "euphonic" which I don't think is true at least with the improved iterations. I have not heard an original.

Spacious, detailed and inviting are the words I would choose for mine.

Have you ever hooked up a phono stage or other piece of equipment and just lost your desire to play music through it? That's how I'd define uninviting. This stage makes me want to play more albums, which is a good sign for me.

It is the opposite of the sterility and dullness that people associate with some transistor stages. That said, it also doesn't feel like syrupy trickery- just more "true to life" (again, to me).
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spaceistheplace
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« Reply #971 on: June 02, 2017, 10:14:06 PM »

GG, if I were to build a second full on 834, would it be a sensible Idea to use a Completely blank new "Blue board" much cheeper than the DOUK one & Roberts new psu board, If that proves to be a success which I'm sure it will.

I would.

There's also a dark blue blank board sold as the amp board only that looks substantially thicker / better mask than the light blue one.

However, maybe it's just the photos playing tricks.

But I'd get one of the two and then I'd wait for Roberts PSU.
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jeb98
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« Reply #972 on: June 02, 2017, 11:45:16 PM »

Hey Everyone, I recently purchased one of these from someone from Europe, and I'm in the US, so I will need to swap transformers.  Can anyone recommend a good 120v suitable for US use, with this PC board EAR clone?

Best,


Jonas
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spaceistheplace
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« Reply #973 on: June 03, 2017, 06:27:02 AM »

Is it Jacos from LH? Depending on what transformer they used you may be able to rewire the existing one for US operation.

If not there's the Antec in the build guide (sticky in this forum category).

May say out of stock but contact them I bet you they have a few.
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jeb98
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« Reply #974 on: June 03, 2017, 05:36:41 PM »

Is it Jacos from LH? Depending on what transformer they used you may be able to rewire the existing one for US operation.

If not there's the Antec in the build guide (sticky in this forum category).

May say out of stock but contact them I bet you they have a few.

It is Jaco's from LH. I don't think this transformer can be wired for 120v, but I'm not certain. I will check out the Antec transformer from the build guide.  I appreciate the advice!
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