Search help and knowledge for the restoration of an EMT R80...

[FLHX]

Hello,

since years I'm a reader, now I created an account on this brilliant forum... Please excuse my poor english... And my impolite introduction, but in my "analogue world" something special happened: After a long search and restoring / rebuilding experiences with Thorens TD 124, Garrard 301 and 401, Lenco L75, many Dual's and finally an EMT 950 "wide body" from the "Radio Bern" in Switzerland I just found an EMT R80, heavy modified with a SME 3012 tonearm instead of the Ortofon RF 297, missing parts of the on-off switch and the groove indicator, but working and overall in decent condition...

One of my greatest "turntable dreams" is now fullfilled and I will try to restore this turntable... I hope I can find some help here... I will post pictures of the player tomorrow, at the moment my greatest problems are:

1. Is it possible to get an old Ortofon RF 297 tonearm (supposed this is the right one for the turntable)?
2. Is it possible to fill the big hole for the SME 3012 and other smaller holes on the deck who are not original with some kind of "aluminium soldering or welding"?
3. Is there a paint out there to match the original hammertone grey paint of the EMT? Someone told me that this was a "two components" paint in the past who is no longer available on the market...
4. How could I restore the black writings after a professional repaint of the body?
5. Which idler wheel should I order? Which is the best one? It seems that they are available from different sources...
6. Is there a instruction manual available? I have no idea how to set up this special motor electrically correct...

Please excuse all those questions, the EMT idler wheel turntables are all new to me and I will avoid mistakes to restore the R80 in his full glory... I will upload images tomorrow to illustrate my questions...

Thank you and best regards

Michael

Michael

[Audpulse]

Welcome to the best forum.
You just happen to acquire a turntable that I have been dreaming of owning.
If it is not going to be a problem for you, I can do #2,3,4,5, and 6 and even pay the shipping from Germany  (lol)
The only promise from you is to let me take at least 2years to play with the turntable.
On a serious note, get in touch with Dr. Jean, who happens to be a member here. He will guide you right regarding the restoration of the turntable.
You have a gem in your hand, so enjoy it.

[Fidel Costar]

Hi Michael,

You should talk to Hans-Ludwig Dusch, ex-EMT engineer.

[FLHX]

Hello audpulse and Fidel Costar,

thank you for your comments, I would try to coordinate the restoration myself, I'm sure Mr. Dusch would deliver a perfect restoration but I did many simpler idler wheel turntables myself and I will get into this adventure, therefore I'm posting here...

So, here are the photos, I picked up the player two days ago in Berlin...















I just shot the photos  and in my opinion this big ugly hole is the greatest problem... How could one fill this hole with aluminium? Beside that, I have no idea if the power supply is only for the motor or also for an EMT phono equalizer? Would it be the legendary EMT 133? Or the later (and also legendary) EMT 139?

Any help is very appreciated...

Michael

[Steenhart]

Hi Michael

I can help you.


It cost me almost 2 years.
Close extra holes.
Repaint
New engravings.
Make new parts . Lift parts where missing.
Long time to get motor ok.
Now I'm a very happy man.
Have also a 927 but this one is better.

Let me know how to help.
Have lot of parts and can make parts too.

Ronald

[FLHX]

Hello Ronald,

thank you for the generous offer, I'll get in contact with you...

Concerning the restoration of the chassis I found someone who can do laser welding of Aluminium. This is an extremely time consuming process, I'll post pictures of the end result as soon as the work is finished... The man who performs the laser welding is experienced, he's welding all sorts of metal, he told me that the aluminium cast of the EMT chassis is of an extraordinary quality he's never been seen before...

Best regards

Michael

[Steenhart]

I close all the holes with two components metal.
Also on my there was another arm a all balance

I should say no welding on this chassis

Can send pictures if you wants

Ronald

[Steenhart]

some history


The first thing to note is that the R80 and the R80S seem to be different turntables in many respects. The EMT R80 is very similar to the 927 or only early model name of the 927 with the somewhat different looking motors used in the early development phase.
The R80 has the same acrylic platter mat as the 927. But the R80S, the special version (Sonderausfuehrung) of the R80, has a heavy platter mat which seems to be an aluminium plate coated with gum and weighs about 1.2 Kg. The massive 4 hole die-cast platter with engraved stroboscopic dots weighs 5.8 Kg. This altogether ca. 7 Kg heavy platter combination rotates on a precision ball bearing. This platter combination, the heavier body and other facts have some definitive sonic effects considerably different from the 927.
After the A-B tests with the R80S and the 927st-F (you see them in one of the pictures), all my audiophile friends came to the conclusion that the R80S is sonically much better than the 927. I guess the heavier platter combination of the R80S seemed to be abandoned in the final studio version of the 927 in spite of the sonic degradation for the sake of the faster start and stop in the broadcasting studio; This purpose would be realized then in the extreme in the EMT 950 "Schallplatten-Wiedergabe-Maschine" with its 200 grams weighing platter.

[dauphine]

I would be extremely careful about welding. I don't want to sound 'alarmist' and what I want to write is just speculation about the unknown but I have rebuilt and repaired several EMT cartridges

It could be possible that the cast chassis contains magnesium. I don't know how magnesium may respond to welding where I presume heat is involved. Maybe you should first consult with a metallurgist?

I have closed many holes in aluminium chassis over the years - the most recent in a Pye HF25 tube amplifier of which there are images before and after restoration in this forum.

My method was to cut and shape an aluminium disc of which the size overlapped the hole's diameter. Roughen-up one side of the patching disc first and then also the area on the underside where you want to close the hole. This will provide a good adhesive bond.

The adhesive I used was a Loctite product, Hysol M-31CL which is for medical applications. This bond between 2 aluminium surfaces will be so strong that the aluminium will tear when trying to separate the 2 parts.

After the bond has cured, fill the indentation from the top with one of numerous automotive body filler and hardener to stand proud of the chassis surface. Afterwards, once the filler has hardened, sand it flat. Afterwards, normal pre-paint preparations can be followed.

Please note there are special primer coatings just for aluminium.

This method will be far safer than trying to weld an unknown metal which may warp if exposed to welding heat.

andre

[FLHX]

Hello Ronald, hello Andre,

thank you very much for the advices, the story of the differences between the EMT R80, 927 and R80S is very enlightening...

I understand the concerns regarding the aluminium welding and we had also the idea to make a round hole in which wo could glue an aluminium disc but there are so many threads underneath the chassis and I could not support to loose more from the original chassis...

The "laser welder" (Gerhard Stehle from Villingen) is a very skilled metallurgist who is in the "laser welding business" since 20 years... The laser impulses are extremely short, absolutely no danger for the heavy aluminium casting... I will post pictures as soon as the different holes are filled, in my opinion this is the only way to preserve as much as possible from the original material and to fill especially the big ugly hole from the SME 3012 with aluminium...

But maybe I'm wrong, in every case I will show the results here...

Best regards

Michael

[Steenhart]

Not welding is the best solition
See here mine R80s


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[FLHX]

Hello Ronald,

perfect, very good work! I just measured the weight of the R80 platter, it's 4,7 kilogram, the acrylic platter mat is 1,4 kilogram, it's very solid and heavy, I suppose because there is no "fast start and stop feature"... The combination has a weight of 6,1 kilogram, I think this is more than on the later EMT 927 with fast start and stop...

Best regards

Michael

[Steenhart]

no same weight.

[FLHX]

Hello,

still some progress in the restoration of the EMT R80, Mr. Stehle just sent me some photos, the holes are filled, especially the big ugly one for the SME 3012, two threads for the groove indicator where repaired through laser filling and re-cutting, no cracks or damage to the chassis... I'm happy, I will pick up the then completely finished chassis in two weeks in Villingen...

I think the results could justify the attempt to fill the holes with aluminium through laser welding... I'm very grateful that Mr. Stehle accepted the task

[dauphine]

It looks a neat job. I look forward to seeing it completed.

andre