moving iron

[frothy]

would like to try one if these out, from V.Engine reading I'm always coming across them and my interest has been piqued, then yesterday I see Grado reference master MI for sale $450, US of course. With no knowledge of these carts I'm loathe to drop this much coin on the unknown. Any insight into this cart or any brand MI for that matter that you might recommend.
  cheers frothy

[Chris65]

Any of the Nagaoka MP range, starting at less than $100 .

[wer]

Some of the Stantorings.

[stingra]

Some of the old ADC:s, I think they are my favourites. The B&O:s are also an option, or the Sonus carts.

Good luck // Ingemar

[flood2]

would like to try one if these out, from V.Engine reading I'm always coming across them and my interest has been piqued, then yesterday I see Grado reference master MI for sale $450, US of course. With no knowledge of these carts I'm loathe to drop this much coin on the unknown. Any insight into this cart or any brand MI for that matter that you might recommend.
  cheers frothy

Do you specifically want a true Moving Iron design?
There are at least two variations on the theme -  Stanton/Pickering 680/XV15 series are technically Induced Magnet based on the magnetic circuit design; the permanent magnet in the body magnetises the permeable tube in the stylus assembly basically turning it into a moving magnet.
The Ortofon 2M and OM series are using an alternative approach where the permeable slug on the stylus in the neutral position maintains a balanced magnetic field within the gap within the magnetic ring. As the slug moves to one side, it alters the magnetic field within the gap by creating a magnetic short circuit. The change in the magnetic field produces the change in flux which gives the output signal.

Personally, I don't think Grado cartridges are worth wasting any money on. The designs are all very similar from the Prestige up to the Reference series. The suspension is poorly damped (you may have heard mention of the "Grado Dance") and the frequency response shows a significant suckout in the brilliance band with a strong rise at HF which gives a slightly odd tonal balance combined with a very strong 3rd order dominant distortion characteristic. The distortion is far higher than cartridges from Ortofon or AT. It is the distortion and frequency response characteristic that gives them the sonic signature that has won over many fans of course; particularly those with an interest in valves and horns given the strong midband emphasis and warm sound (which sounds dull to me with an odd sheen), but I think they are over priced for what is on offer. I also found the manufacturing quality to be extremely variable. I bought a Prestige Green and Silver stylus some years ago.
Both ended up being sent back to Grado after my analysis. The Green wouldn't track past 50um no matter VTF you used. The Silver stylus had a large zenith error (rotated off axis by nearly 10°) with a large lump of epoxy on the tip making it unusable. Grado were very obliging in hand selecting a replacement Green that now tracks to 80um at the nominal VTF. However, they simply removed the epoxy off the Silver and sent it back. They wouldn't answer any of my questions regarding manufacturing tolerances and whether the original units sent to them met the test criteria or not. I consider it complete junk. They make a big deal out of saying they are hand made. Sadly it appears there aren't even visual checks let alone checks on performance after they are made.

Others may disagree I'm sure, but I find little to recommend them particularly based on the variable quality.

"Moving Iron" was originally preferred in the 60s and early 70s prior to the development and introduction of the rare earth magnet which meant that the (otherwise large) magnets could be fixed within the cartridge body and a small permeable member would change the flux. Early MI cartridges out performed MM cartridges as a result.

Rare earth magnetic materials enabled the physical size (and mass) of the magnet to be reduced sufficiently to enable a low effective tip mass which is required to extend the frequency response and enable high tracking ability.
The Stanton Low Impedance cartridges remain one of the best expressions of the art by marrying the benefits of both transducer types (fixed coil and moving coil) to achieve wide bandwidth and high tracking ability.

Personally I would suggest trying to get a StantonLZS or Pickering XLZ cartridge!

[vanakaru]

ADC XLM/VLM is one and can be fitted with finest modern stylus. I like these.

[vinylshminyl]

I have Acutex M310 II since I was a child. I keep coming back to it.

It's running now with a cheap conical in my Garrard changer and sounds quite amazing.

I even nabbed a Shibata and lots of Elliptical aftermarket styli of good quality.

I agree with previous posts and avoid Grados.

[stratokaster83]

Glanz cartridges are another well liked example of the moving iron principle.

[GP49]

Personally I would suggest trying to get a StantonLZS or Pickering XLZ cartridge!

It was clear to me but perhaps not to some others...those Stanton/Pickerings are rare-earth moving magnet cartridges.

[frothy]

This is an education and thanks for all the input folks, have been checking out some of the recommendations, I did notice that V.E. did classify some of these as MM not MI ,but being a cartridge newbie thought maybe MI were grouped in with MM sort of like a variation of MM. So many things to learn, thanks for broadening my horizons.
 do have the Stanton 881 S MM with D81 stylus, much the same spec's as the Stanton 881E MI cart in all but stylus  configuration, so maybe I'll keep my eyes open for one of them as well. I guess until I delve deeper there will be questions, there are two statements that have thrown me a curve ball. True MI and MI in principle, YIKES please have patience with me.
best to all frothy.

[tabarddn]

Hi, One thing you need to be aware of if you want to try out a Grado they need to be used with very low Effective Mass tonearms. You do no mention what arm you are using.

Cheers

[analogadikt]

Why no mention of the Decca London? And we have the longest, most comprehensive thread on that right here on LH 

Regards,

[flood2]

This is an education and thanks for all the input folks, have been checking out some of the recommendations, I did notice that V.E. did classify some of these as MM not MI ,but being a cartridge newbie thought maybe MI were grouped in with MM sort of like a variation of MM. So many things to learn, thanks for broadening my horizons.
 do have the Stanton 881 S MM with D81 stylus, much the same spec's as the Stanton 881E MI cart in all but stylus  configuration, so maybe I'll keep my eyes open for one of them as well. I guess until I delve deeper there will be questions, there are two statements that have thrown me a curve ball. True MI and MI in principle, YIKES please have patience with me.
best to all frothy.

MI and MM commonly get grouped together since they are USUALLY associated with high output - with exceptions for the low impedance/low output models from Grado which require extra gain and therefore use the MC input despite the transducer principle.
From a marketing perspective, normally a cartridge is distinguished between whether the coils are fixed (MM and MI) or the coils are moving (which is how"Moving Coil" cartridges are named).
As hobbyists, all of us here, myself included, like examples of different technologies and cartridge types. However, at the end of the day, the transducer principle shouldn't, in theory, make any difference to the sound you hear. However, it is the design choices and compromises that give a cartridge the distinctive sound.

What I'm really trying to say is, by all means experiment and try a MI cartridge for the fun of it, but remember that in most cases, the sound you hear is really the combination of specific design components and not exactly due to the transducer principle.

I'm glad Gene (GP49) jumped in to point out that the Stanton/Pickering Low Impedance bodies are MM bodies not MI; I mentioned them because they give you the best of both worlds - high tracking ability, low tip mass/wide bandwidth equivalent to MC and the convenience of a replaceable stylus.

[vinylshminyl]

Why no mention of the Decca London? And we have the longest, most comprehensive thread on that right here on LH 

Regards,

Not yo mention the acu-tex bar thread, which has been quiet awhile...

[frothy]

Will check out both those threads, cheers, good to have some interesting reading material.
 I'm going to go on a search for one of Richard's books, computer is OK but nothing compares to having a book in hand, must be the
dinosaur in me.
 tone arms Grace G727 and SME3 both pretty light.
 Thanks again for your insights.
 frothy