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Author Topic: A novel take on a Uni-pivot arm  (Read 76286 times)
Tobbe
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« Reply #2100 on: January 16, 2025, 10:22:09 PM »

Really great to see this thread keeping on being active!
Very interesting to see that solution with a bearing for the top point for the hoist.
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Cloclo
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« Reply #2101 on: January 19, 2025, 02:50:13 PM »

Just made new post to make accommodating the larger bearing simpler. So I went from a went from a 4mm diam brass hook rod to a 5mm and modified the new post to hold the rod horizontally rather than at an angle. Using an eyelet to fix the hoist to the bearing I like a lot. I used 2 separate hoists for left & right sides, but the other thing I am pleased about is because the hoist is not twisting, I can use a metal braid as used in bracelets & necklaces as the hoist. In fact, I attached the hoists to the hook eyelet using crimp tubes, not knots, then sleeving with heat shrink so all looks very professional! Hoist material seems supple enough to work with & wind around the tuning pegs:




Advantages for me are mainly with the UH arm where I dont have to contend with the torsional forces. Also, the metal braided hoists are re-assuring regarding strength & fraying which was always at the back of my mind. I stated in a previous post I didnt think there was any point using a bearing for the stock Supa arm. Maybe just to have an even antiskate across the record, but Richard has sorted this.

Will test now to see if I hear any resonances from the bearing or metal hoist.

Cheers

Vic


Vic,
This looks impressive!!  And Adelmo seems about to finalise something equally innovative and impressive.

My question for both of you is:  which sonic benefits have you found upon the introduction of the bearing?

I am asking because, I have eventually got around to implement a variable antiskating mechanism on my rudimentary Supatra clone and:
1) I found that the benefits of the variable antiskate over a fix hanging weight are huge - in fact, I am bit puzzled by how big an impact the variable antiskate has had
2) Having heard my same Lyra cartridges in all sorts of arms - not just in my system and with the 4-5 tonearms I have used in recent times - I cannot think how their sound could be further improved


Finally, let me share my experience with CARTRIDGE DECOUPLING.  
Inserting a compliant £27 Origin Live's Cartridge Enabler (https://www.originlive.com/shop/cartridge-enabler.html)  between headshell and cartridge, and loosening the cartridge screws almost to the bare minimum required to prevent movement of the cartridge when the stylus guard is applied/removed, does wonders to the sound:  the image grows in all 3 dimensions, instrument positioning and separation increases, bass becomes deeper and more textured, highs are more airy and extened, and so on...
I am aware that such a large impact from a cartridge decoupler means that I am putting a plaster over an uncured problem that lies elsewhere.  Somehow my tonearm is not 100% mechanically isolalated and is picking up mechanical vibrations (*) that transfer onto the cartridge.  
However, I bet that others may suffer from a similar lack of complete isolation from external vibrations in their tonearm and may equally benefit from decoupling cartridge and headshell.
I have tried making my own decouplers using balsa and carbon fibre-reinforced polimer shims. The balsa ones, which are compliant, have some positive effect on sound quality, but is not as good as the OL decoupler.

(*) I guess mechanical vibrations can either come from the mount or be airborne vibrations.  I think I suffer from the latter.  
My tonearm is not in direct contact with the turntable plinth, from which is decoupled by a sequence of multiple materials (balsa, plywoodm metal , rubber). The rack on which everthing, included the tonearm sit, could still be a souce of vibrations picked up from the floor. However, being located close to a corner, my turntable sits in a region of high acoustic energy in the room.  Hence, I believe that the tonearm's stimulation is likely to be airborne - classic acoustic feedback
 

  
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TransFi
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« Reply #2102 on: January 19, 2025, 03:59:38 PM »

Claudio

Being honest with you I have not found the anti-skate to make a huge like night or day difference. My main reason for the bearing mod was to remove the torsional effect the hoist had on arm movement while running underhang (which I do find makes a big difference). The arm now more or less behaves like a gimbal arm, and I am not running anti-skate. I am not sure I am hearing a huge effect with this mod either. Generally, the underhand improves the leading edges of bass & percussion making them explosive. I also find a bigger, cleaner soundstage....again with instruments seemingly popping out at me. The one thing I noticed after the mod was deep bass notes were more pronounced.

There are too many variables in people's hifi systems & hearing to proclaim everyone will hear a positive result running an underhang arm. I am one of the ones that likes it!
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Front End:Transfi Salvation Direct Rim Drive TT, SupaClone UH Tonearm+AT-OC9XML, Parkes Audio Puffin
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Adelmo
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« Reply #2103 on: January 19, 2025, 05:26:10 PM »

Hi Claudio,

Sorry but I did not finish the mod with bearing plus strings. Regarding the bearing with CF blade I have some collision and geometric problems to settle as I do want to use as much as I can the present TA and not make a new thrust box and other parts.

What I do expect from the bearing plus strings:

I expect to avoid the torsion of the 2 wires
I expect an easier bias setting and also more steady  with less compromise in all the tracks
Better azimut


What I expect from bearing plus CF blade:

It is a more complex construction and this is a minus

But if done well and with precise laser cut machine once done has no need of any adjustment, change of setting or wires.
Also for the TA would be more friendly as these setting related to the inline between pivot and threads holes in the thrust box are fixed and done during the main assembling before to put it in the TT.
It is a more rigid materiale ( quicker trasmission I would s say and not elastic in his vertical direction )

I expect to avoid the torsion of the 2 wires
I expect an easier bias setting and also more steady with less compromise in all the tracks
Better azimut

Sound wise? I have no idea if it is working well as the vertical space for the blade is much reduced. For this reason  now I am using a 0.2mm CF that is the most thin i found.
Could be worse, the same, or........ to be listened hopefully is working.

Still waiting to receive the bearings, but now they are shipped so next week I expect to receive them.


By the way my system is pretty basic and simple for this reason I prefer not to talk much about the sound:

At the present I use a Lenco TT wit my LT tonearm and Denon DL 103

Pre phono Aria 1st type by Audio Analogue ( no step up )

Integrated is a Pathos Logos 1st version

Sonus Faber speakers Cremona Auditor 1st version with original stand.

Best regards

Adelmo


« Last Edit: January 20, 2025, 03:59:16 PM by Adelmo » Logged
Adelmo
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« Reply #2104 on: January 20, 2025, 03:45:06 PM »

Hi,

Small progress:

Modified the old thrust box to accept the CF blades instead of strings.

Recycled the old carbon blades and test a partial assembling. Most probably I need to thinner the blade width that with this short length I think are a bit too strong. Shall see later on on the spot.

Parts are getting too tiny for my not firm hands.....

Eager to receive the bearings to further assemble the whole things.

I suppose I will test first the bearing plus CF blade since for the bearing plus strings I need to change the string tensioning thing and I did not make these parts yet.

Rgds

Adelmo









 
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TransFi
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« Reply #2105 on: January 20, 2025, 04:56:44 PM »

This looks real neat Adelmo.

Have you got details on how you attached carbon blade to bearing?

The thing I dont understand is how blade will flex to allow unrestricted vertical movement? Are the screws attaching blade to thrustbox loose?

Thanks

Vic
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Adelmo
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« Reply #2106 on: January 20, 2025, 06:06:14 PM »

This looks real neat Adelmo.

Have you got details on how you attached carbon blade to bearing?

The thing I dont understand is how blade will flex to allow unrestricted vertical movement? Are the screws attaching blade to thrustbox loose?

Thanks

Vic

HI Vic,

AS said before I already failed with one attempt long time ago.

For the details of my new attempt I enclose some pictures. It is a kind of puzzle because I used old parts and no machinery. If I have to do from white paper I would do a bit more simple:

Main post is recycled from previous attempt. I filled the bearing house with epoxy and drilled a hole for the screw.

I attached to it a aluminum square 10x10mm slide

I made the bearing support using 2 L shape aluminum bar glued together, drilled 8mm hole for the bearing
To hold the bearing at he bottom I used a flat brass profile with 6mm hole.
All these parts are locked to the main post square slide with 2 brass M3 screws.

The long bolt M3  placed above the bade s clamp ( still need to be cut at the right dimension ) will go inside the bearing hole ( 3 mm ) and I tight is with upper nut.


Regarding the blades:

lower part are fixed to the thrust box by using M 2,5 cart bolts. I threaded the steel thrust box, I can decide to tight the blade or leave loosen. At the present I think I shall tight them in the right position, sandwiched to the thrust box.

Upper blades are also tightened with a bolt M 2,5 plus a small clamp.

The rotation should not change the azimut as it only rotates
The thrust box shall not move from his H levelled position during the vinyl tracking


Vertical motion:

The carbon blade is only 0.2mm thickness therefore allow to flex easily. I can tune up its flexibility ( increase ) by thinning the CF blade width , but it flex already. width to be checked on the testing spot.

Shall it works? I do not know honestly, but I am optimistic and this time allow me to say confident. Hope I shall not regret this sentence.

The stiffness of the blades shall change/worsen the sound of the TA?. I have no idea.

Rgds

Adelmo

















« Last Edit: January 20, 2025, 10:08:57 PM by Adelmo » Logged
low pitch
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« Reply #2107 on: Today at 02:47:37 AM »

What you end up with is a flex bearing plus a ball race.   Interesting to combine it with the supa pivot, but I suspect it doesn't need  it.  The CF flex bearing will provide all that's needed by itself.  If bolted to the plate of course.  If not bolted it becomes a knife edge bearing.  It was this thinking that led to my teflon flex bearing plus ball race on top.   It sounds very good, in same way as my supa.
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martin

"my hifi's waiting for a new tube..."  Nina Simone 'turn me on'
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« Reply #2108 on: Today at 07:38:47 AM »

Be nice to get rid of the hoists somehow.

2 issues I see with this:
  • how you going to adjust azimuth?
  • how you going to get the carbon to flex exactly in line with the pivot point?
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Adelmo
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« Reply #2109 on: Today at 07:58:16 AM »

Be nice to get rid of the hoists somehow.

2 issues I see with this:
  • how you going to adjust azimuth?
  • how you going to get the carbon to flex exactly in line with the pivot point?


Hi Vic,

Azimut is set at once by the hole precision of the blade. At least this is my goal. In fact I have to readjust the hole blades, make them in a different way.

The upper CF is locked in the center of the M3 vertical bolt that is the rotating shaft and fit into the tiny bearing This is the theory, the result depend on the precision I can achieve that is not that high. Shall see.

Rgds

Adelmo
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Adelmo
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« Reply #2110 on: Today at 08:06:42 AM »

What you end up with is a flex bearing plus a ball race.   Interesting to combine it with the supa pivot, but I suspect it doesn't need  it.  The CF flex bearing will provide all that's needed by itself.  If bolted to the plate of course.  If not bolted it becomes a knife edge bearing.  It was this thinking that led to my teflon flex bearing plus ball race on top.   It sounds very good, in same way as my supa.


Hi Martin,

How are you doing with your LT tonearm?.

Regarding the CF blade that replace the 2 strings plus the top tiny being:

I plane to bolt in the lower part of the thrust box

Also the upper part is locked by the clamp that rotate as th blade is in the center of the rotating M3 bolt that fit into the bearing.

You correct, the flex of the CF will push the pivot against the thrust box ( like the different leaning when you have the 2 strings. The addition of the rotation ( bearing ) avoid the twisting of the strings, in this case it is. a blade.

The blade is more stiff in the rotation so I suppose more reactive to it. The flex action can be adjusted ( pressure of pivot to the thrust box ) by the leaning and the flex itself of the blade.

Not sure it works, shall see as I still have some minor collision as dimension pretty small.

Best regards

Adelmo
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