Jico SAS problem

[TransFi]

Been having a few cartridge issues lately, so I broke out my new Jico SAS stylus fitted to P77. As soon as it hits the groove, dirt starts caking up into a ball. None of my other stylii do this, nor my old Jico....so I dont actually think its dirt. The material is fine & sticky....like a spider's web. The record groove has also turned whitish, so I am wondering if its gouging the surface causing damage.

Tracking at recommended 1.25g & parallel to record surface. Bias adjustment makes no difference.

Anyone have any ideas? Video link below....

https://imgur.com/UjmMcGM

[willbewill]

First questions...has the record been cleaned? If so by what method? Or is it a new record or never been cleaned?

Bearing in mind the SAS profile digs deep.

[TransFi]

Hi Malc

I have identical Jico stylus which does not do this. Nor do any of my other stylii, including Microline.

I have an ultrasonic cleaner. It doesnt look like dirt, but fine wisps of sticky material.

Cheers

Vic

[willbewill]

Is it like this with other records or just this one? Have you played this record with the other styli ?

My initial thought was that a cleaning solution had left a residue deep in the grooves or that it was a residue from the record manufacturing process

[TransFi]

All records.....even run out groove.

[willbewill]

Maybe a faulty stylus that got past QC, what was sound like?

[TransFi]

I've not been able to play it. Clogs up as soon as hits record so wont track & sound is muffled.

I am emailing supplier, altho I bought in Jan 2024, but I have not used it.

[willbewill]

Ouch! Jico say that the SAS profile is very neat to cutter profile, sounds like yours is as sharp as well.

[Andrew.R]

Try VTA or tracking force. Most SAS stylii don't track anything heavier than 1.1g.

[wenig watt]

Hmm,
at first glance, the angle looks a bit steep, which would be appropriate for a cutting tool. Is your other SAS the same?

Best regards

Arndt

[pde2000]

That looks terrible.  I hope it was not a good record.  Although the jiggle indicateds the arm is a bit on heavy side the fact that the diamond is gouging out vinyl like that must mean it's faulty.  If you have a microscope or even a macro, try to image the stylus to see what's going on.  I have a few jico sas, and have replaced the diamond on three; once after the diamond lost some of it's tracing edge, once after the diamond fell off, and the last after it just wore down.  None of them have ever gouged the vinyl like that.

One of my shure m75 recently had a fatal incident when I put the stylus guard down (I had it on wrong) and it bent the aluminium tube back.  I still have the boron rod, and the replacement microline diamond (from a vm95ml) but the rest is toast.  They cost a fortune these days.

PS I mostly use them at 1.25g vtf

PPS mine also have this rake angle.  They sound great.

[TransFi]

Thanks for the replies guys. Will try the suggestions tomorrow and report back.
Cheers

Vic

[flood2]

Been having a few cartridge issues lately, so I broke out my new Jico SAS stylus fitted to P77. As soon as it hits the groove, dirt starts caking up into a ball. None of my other stylii do this, nor my old Jico....so I dont actually think its dirt. The material is fine & sticky....like a spider's web. The record groove has also turned whitish, so I am wondering if its gouging the surface causing damage.

Tracking at recommended 1.25g & parallel to record surface. Bias adjustment makes no difference.

Anyone have any ideas? Video link below....

https://imgur.com/UjmMcGM

The short answer is that what you are describing (the whitened groove) is what you would get with a damaged tip so I would suggest to discontinue use immediately as you have likely done significant damage to the groove. As the stylus is new, it is unlikely that the ridge is chipped, but I am thinking that the amplitude of the vertical oscillations due to the LF resonance is so large that the scrubbing action is possibly damaging the groove. As the stylus rises out of the groove, the contact area decreases and so the pressure in the groove can be considerably higher than simpler designs like an elliptical stylus.
Are you able to take a close up of the tip section? There is often quite a significant slab of adhesive to hold the stylus chip on the flattened tip of the boron rod - early samples of SAS styli I have had such a significant amount of adhesive that the stylus was barely protruding from it. It is also possible that the adhesive is contacting the groove as the cartridge bounces.
I agree with Paul that the arm is far too heavy for the suspension compliance  - the amplitude of the oscillations is huge and causing a tremendous variation in rake angle. This is actually one of the reasons that VdH came out with the "Type II" stylus with the shorter and wider 7x45um profile intended for high compliance MMs. The longer the contact line (the bearing radius for the SAS is 75um) the more stable the rake angle needs to be kept in order to yield the benefits of lower distortion and improved tracing ability afforded by the narrow/long designs.

[ropie]

Anyone have any ideas? Video link below....

https://imgur.com/UjmMcGM

Vic, are you sure you didn't accidentally order one of Jico's cutting lathe tips instead of one of their normal styli

[TransFi]

Anthony

I think you are spot on with this diagnosis. I did notice the oscillations like it was hitting the resonant frequency. The vexing thing is my other SAS tracks fine and sounds great. Both the stylii look more like glue than diamond. I will see if I can take pics.

When I originally bought the SAS back in January, I briefly tested it in my Terminator, which is very light, and it tracked fine with no issues. Now that you mention the arm is way too heavy for the cartridge...and I am using a Supatrac clone pivot arm....altho doesnt explain why my other SAS tracks fine.

I also sent the video to Jico Japan. This was their nonsense reply:

Thank you for contacting JICO and providing detailed information about the issue, along with the video attachment.

Here are a few things you can try:

Check for Static: Static electricity can attract fluff. Using an anti-static brush on your records or a record cleaning solution might help.

Clean the Stylus: The new stylus might have some residue on it. Gently clean the tip using a stylus cleaner or a soft brush.

Environment: If the air is very dry, static might be worse. A bit of humidity can sometimes help reduce this.

If the problem persists, we recommend reaching out to Scott Nangle for further assistance, as they may have specific insights or solutions for this replacement stylus.

We hope this information is helpful you.