Looking for recommendations upgrading from an AT-11E on stock L75

[vistar16]

Hi everyone,

I'd like to start off by apologizing immediately for posting yet another L75 stock tonearm cartridge recommendation topic.
I've done some preliminary research on the existing threads and have gathered a list of cartridges I am considering.

Current setup : Stock L75 with stock tonearm. AT-11E cartridge with Analogis Black Diamond Elliptical stylus (NEW). New brass v-blocks.

PREAMBLE:
This L75 sat in a basement for decades. I refurbished it as best as I could but kept the AT-11E and just replaced the stylus.
I've tuned the VTF several times as well as the anti-skate and although it performed acceptably for a few weeks, now that the stylus has broken in a little, I am noticing that the stylus is bouncing and causing vibrations when it tracks the groove, I've set 1.5g-2.0 tracking force. As I approach 2.0g, it appears to be bottoming out and as I get closer to 1.5g the vibrations/bouncing gets worse. There is no tracking force that seems to eliminate this behavior. The symptoms are way more obvious on 180g records. I'm starting to suspect the cartridge cantilever may have worn out and that I should probably just replace the cartridge at this point.

REPLACEMENT CARTRIDGE CONSIDERATIONS:
I'd rather buy a NEW cartridge (I'd like to avoid used options but I will still listen to arguments made for getting a new old-stock SHURE for example but they're kinda hard to find).
My budget is to stay below the cost of a DL-103. I mostly listen to 80s (New Wave).
I would like to keep the stock headshell but I'm also OK with buying something like a HAKKER HS-21. [I am located in Canada]
MM and MC are both OK.

• 1) AT VM95ML (compliance is not very clear on this one... I wanted to buy a VM540ML but I read that it would be an even worse match)
• 2) Nagaoka MP-110
• 3) Denon DL-103 (I do have a pre-amp that can handle MC... but it is a little on the expensive side - I will get this if the consensus is that it is vastly superior)

Any and all advice is appreciated  

Thanks!

Jeremy

[analogadikt]

Current setup : Stock L75 with stock tonearm. AT-11E cartridge with Analogis Black Diamond Elliptical stylus (NEW). New brass v-blocks.

 I'm starting to suspect the cartridge cantilever may have worn out and that I should probably just replace the cartridge at this point.

Your problems are more likely due to the brass V blocks. Add a small dab of white grease ( soft runny stuff like toothpaste) or medium viscosity silicone fluid in the blocks. Better still , replace them with something nearest to the original specs. Check traders section here.

Cartridge suspension is part of the stylus assembly. You say that you have a new stylus there, so how can that be possible?

IMO the AT95 and the Nagaoka are not better than a vintage AT11 with a new stylus .

Your problems are most likely due to the non-standard V blocks.

Regards,

Anwesh

[willbewill]

I would also suggest that the problem may be due to the Analogis Black Diamond Elliptical stylus, the suspension may have failed. I had exactly this happen with a Black Diamond 120E stylus, ended up totally useless - I thought I was just unlucky but maybe there is a quality control problem?

[aamodtasan]

for the stock arm I would not buy an expensive MC cart, if you do a search, you will find many very happy with the ATwm95 series, the green model e is more than god enough (to my ears) for the stock arm. Also the AT3600l (=Rega Carbon) is a good enough match for the stock arm.

Get nylon v-blocks for the arm, the Thakker headshell (Thorens has one aswell) is good for mounting modern carts, but does nothing sonically (to my ears, I have them both).

hth
henrik

[vistar16]

Your problems are more likely due to the brass V blocks. Add a small dab of white grease ( soft runny stuff like toothpaste) or medium viscosity silicone fluid in the blocks. Better still , replace them with something nearest to the original specs. Check traders section here.

Cartridge suspension is part of the stylus assembly. You say that you have a new stylus there, so how can that be possible?

IMO the AT95 and the Nagaoka are not better than a vintage AT11 with a new stylus .

Your problems are most likely due to the non-standard V blocks.

Regards,

Anwesh

I see. I figured suspension would be primarily part of the stylus but I thought the cartridge itself played a role as well. As you said, the stylus is new but people have reported issues with deffective black diamond styli in the past so I'm contemplating swapping it out with a new ATS12 stylus.

If the problem was really due to the v-blocks, why did it track and play fine for 20-30 hours of play time? I had added some lithium grease but it was a spray, not the viscuous white stuff. I think I'll add some grease for now as a quick test and then get some 3d printed resin vblocks if the grease seemed to help.

Also, you're saying that a VM95ML with a microlinear stylus wouldn't sound better than a vintage AT11 with an elliptical stylus?

Thanks for the reply!

[vistar16]

I would also suggest that the problem may be due to the Analogis Black Diamond Elliptical stylus, the suspension may have failed. I had exactly this happen with a Black Diamond 120E stylus, ended up totally useless - I thought I was just unlucky but maybe there is a quality control problem?

Yeah, it is kind of crazy to think that the suspension failed after 20-30 hours of use but that would indeed explain things. I think I'll source a JICO stylus just to be sure.

[HearTheDifference]

The stylus is probably the culprit. The Black Diamond styli for the AT10/11 Series are not great. Every one I've encountered over the past few years was a low rider due to the cantilever not being angled correctly, and if you apply enough VTF to make them track properly, they bottom out. It's a design flaw.

I recently installed a JICO Shibata stylus ( https://www.jico-stylus.com/product/ats12s/ ) on a friend's AT11E cartridge and it's great. Sounds awesome, tracks flawlessly, and doesn't bottom out. Having said that, it costs almost $200, so I would recommend buying a new VM95ML instead, unless you are really committed to keeping the AT11E and don't mind paying a premium for a quality replacement stylus.

[HearTheDifference]

Also, you're saying that a VM95ML with a microlinear stylus wouldn't sound better than a vintage AT11 with an elliptical stylus?

Personally I wouldn't agree with that at all, and I own both of them. I have genuine Audio-Technica 11 and 12 ellipticals (as well as several aftermarket ellipticals), and they sound very nice but they don't come close to the detail retrieval and lack of distortion that one hears with the VM95ML. The AT12 Shibata comes close, but it also costs more and I wouldn't say it sounds better.

[analogadikt]

AT11/12 and probably 13 are identical bodies with upgraded styli. They have the vintage, full bodied rich sound signature that is not found in the 95. The 95 is analytical (CD like to my ears) and my golden eared friend concurs. In fact , we prefer the 3600 over the 95. I believe LPgear has now launched an advanced shape stylus for it. The 3600 also got one or two long discussion topics on AK , the 95 doesn't seem to have that honour on the forums that I follow.

IMHO and YMMV applies to my comments above. I have nothing more to say so I am out of this discussion.

Good luck to the OP for a long and enjoyable ownership experience with his Lenco.

Regards,

Anwesh

[HearTheDifference]

I have nothing more to say so I am out of this discussion.

Before you leave, it would be helpful if you could specify which cartridge you are referring to when you talk about "the 95."  There are two versions of the AT95E, as well as the AT95EX, plus the VM95C, VM95E, VM95EN, VM95ML, and VM95SH... and they all sound different from one another.

[analogadikt]

Before you leave, it would be helpful if you could specify which cartridge you are referring to when you talk about "the 95."  There are two versions of the AT95E, as well as the AT95EX, plus the VM95C, VM95E, VM95EN, VM95ML, and VM95SH... and they all sound different from one another.

The OP started this topic about the instability problem he is facing. So let's stick to that. To be helpful, I have suggested that regular V blocks should be tried. I have used brass V blocks , they are a bit tricky to dial in.
Another helpful suggestion, as the new stylus for the AT11 cartridge is suspected, the OP can try the cartridge in another turntable. The results would help to confirm where the problem lies.

The black diamond is budget aftermarket alternative. The AT95ML is $169. For that kind of money, a much better stylus can be had for the AT11. Perhaps a custom retip job is also possible.

Best Regards,

Anwesh

[willbewill]

Jico Shibata stylus for AT11 is $192 + shipping

[Wolfie62]

Ive never had issues with the black Diamond styli, and I have a bunch of them!

I have the BD styli for the AT12XE, AT11 and 10. All track at 1.2 grams, sound better than my OEM AT styli. Also the p-mount AT6006 and VS215. Also the AT14Sa/AT15Sa.

Also the Ortofon Super OM.

Also the Pickering XV15-1200D.

Also the Shure M44/M55. M95, M97HE. With multiples for spares.

Also the ADC XLM MKIII.

All have been perfect, and sound really good!

[willbewill]

Ive never had issues with the black Diamond styli, and I have a bunch of them!

I have the BD styli for the AT12XE, AT11 and 10. All track at 1.2 grams, sound better than my OEM AT styli. Also the p-mount AT6006 and VS215. Also the AT14Sa/AT15Sa.

Also the Ortofon Super OM.

Also the Pickering XV15-1200D.

Also the Shure M44/M55. M95, M97HE. With multiples for spares.

Also the ADC XLM MKIII.

All have been perfect, and sound really good!

Where were yours sourced from? Mine came from Thakker and probably managed 50 or so hours tracking at the AT recommended 2g. It did sound very good while it lasted though. https://www.lencoheaven.net/forum/index.php?topic=34883.0

I note you are tracking at lower VTFs - could this be why some of us have had issues? (Recommended VTF for AT 11 is 1.5-2.5g) - do the manufacturers of the Black Diamond Styli give recommended VTF details?

Edit:

I have just checked on the mrstylus.com site ( https://mrstylus.com/en/shop/replacement-stylus/stylus-name/black-diamond-en/ ) and VTF are quoted, and are lower! Interestingly there is no AT120E stylus available but they have a AT110E listed which they say is  Compatible with Audio Technica cartridges AT 105 | AT 110 E | AT 410E | AT 420E - as far as I am aware the AT110 stylus is not compatible with AT420 (which is compatible with AT120).

[flood2]

Hi everyone,

I'd like to start off by apologizing immediately for posting yet another L75 stock tonearm cartridge recommendation topic.
I've done some preliminary research on the existing threads and have gathered a list of cartridges I am considering.

Current setup : Stock L75 with stock tonearm. AT-11E cartridge with Analogis Black Diamond Elliptical stylus (NEW). New brass v-blocks.

PREAMBLE:
This L75 sat in a basement for decades. I refurbished it as best as I could but kept the AT-11E and just replaced the stylus.
I've tuned the VTF several times as well as the anti-skate and although it performed acceptably for a few weeks, now that the stylus has broken in a little, I am noticing that the stylus is bouncing and causing vibrations when it tracks the groove, I've set 1.5g-2.0 tracking force. As I approach 2.0g, it appears to be bottoming out and as I get closer to 1.5g the vibrations/bouncing gets worse. There is no tracking force that seems to eliminate this behavior. The symptoms are way more obvious on 180g records. I'm starting to suspect the cartridge cantilever may have worn out and that I should probably just replace the cartridge at this point.

REPLACEMENT CARTRIDGE CONSIDERATIONS:
I'd rather buy a NEW cartridge (I'd like to avoid used options but I will still listen to arguments made for getting a new old-stock SHURE for example but they're kinda hard to find).
My budget is to stay below the cost of a DL-103. I mostly listen to 80s (New Wave).
I would like to keep the stock headshell but I'm also OK with buying something like a HAKKER HS-21. [I am located in Canada]
MM and MC are both OK.

• 1) AT VM95ML (compliance is not very clear on this one... I wanted to buy a VM540ML but I read that it would be an even worse match)
• 2) Nagaoka MP-110
• 3) Denon DL-103 (I do have a pre-amp that can handle MC... but it is a little on the expensive side - I will get this if the consensus is that it is vastly superior)

Any and all advice is appreciated  

Thanks!

Jeremy

The "bouncing" you describe sounds more related to suspension compliance - the compliance is possibly too high for the arm. I am assuming that you may not have access to a test disc....in which case if you are able to record the silent groove of a record (say the lead in) on your PC through the Line IN from your phono preamp or Tape Out jacks then you can use free software like Audacity to see where the low frequency resonance is. You will see a big rise at the low end where the resonance is (at the centre of the "hump"). The higher it is and the narrower the peak at resonance tells you that the stylus is not a good match to your arm.

 Here is an example :