Typical stylus lifespan in hours?

[Nick]

I'm trying to work out whether the stylus on my Goldring 2400 is likely to be worn out after about 400 hours' use. I don't think it sounds worn out, but I think it's starting to sound dull, which I believe is a giveaway that it's worn out. Thing is, I don't have a brand new 2400 to compare it with.

After rooting around on the internet, I came to the conclusion that there is a very vague consensus that a stylus can be expected to last about 400-500 hours.

Insofar as I've decided to buy a new stylus anyway, this is something of a rhetorical question; but I wonder if anyone can throw a bit of certainty into the mix?

[strata]

I dont think that is the reason for the "dull" sound, a diamond stylus should last far more hours. It could be something else in the component chain that is tending to fail.? 

[ChrisS]

Hi,

The figure I've seen quoted is about 500 hours for a half-thou spherical tip tracking at 2 grams. A smaller contact area with the groove or a heavier tracking weight will increase the wear. However, a lot depends on how clean the discs are. The wear is measurable by the size of the 'flat' on the stylus; this should not exceed a quarter of a thou in diameter.

Chris

[strata]

My DL 103 has spun for about 600 hours and it sounds fantastic still. I wonder how long this stylus will last after reading this thread? Is it possible for a diamond tip to wear at all? I have heard styluses from the 70`s that still sound great. Does anybody have some facts upon this matter? 

[Nick]

Facts seem to be thin on the ground . Chris: where did you see your figure quoted? I've only been able to find oblique references in message boards, although I did come across one person who was using all sorts of microscopic techniques to analyse the wear on the stylus. I didn't really understand any of them to be honest, quite possibly because the person wasn't entirely sure what they themselves were doing: the explanations were not models of clarity.

Doesn't the DL103 have a spherical tip, Strata? If so, then its long life might be explained by Chris's observation that spherical tips, with a larger surface area, might tend to wear more slowly than a fine line stylus such as the one on my Goldring 2400 (which tracks at 1.8g on cleaned records).

It occurs to me that wear would also depend on the music being played: high dynamics would tend to throw the stylus around the groove far more than low ones, I suppose.

[willbewill]

I'm trying to work out whether the stylus on my Goldring 2400 is likely to be worn out after about 400 hours' use. I don't think it sounds worn out, but I think it's starting to sound dull, which I believe is a giveaway that it's worn out. Thing is, I don't have a brand new 2400 to compare it with.

After rooting around on the internet, I came to the conclusion that there is a very vague consensus that a stylus can be expected to last about 400-500 hours.

Insofar as I've decided to buy a new stylus anyway, this is something of a rhetorical question; but I wonder if anyone can throw a bit of certainty into the mix?

Is it clean, how do you clean it?
Are your records clean, how do you clean them?

These are the factors which mostly affect stylus wear, stylus profile and tracking force may also have some effect as possibly antiskate might.

[d to the g]

If it's any consolation, Stig at Lyra quoted me 1800+ for my dorian if well taken care of.  The little book that the AT440 came with claimed 1000.  I believe van den Hul may have spoken to this regarding his carts as well.

[flavio81]

I'm trying to work out whether the stylus on my Goldring 2400 is likely to be worn out after about 400 hours' use. I don't think it sounds worn out, but I think it's starting to sound dull, which I believe is a giveaway that it's worn out. Thing is, I don't have a brand new 2400 to compare it with.

After rooting around on the internet, I came to the conclusion that there is a very vague consensus that a stylus can be expected to last about 400-500 hours.

Insofar as I've decided to buy a new stylus anyway, this is something of a rhetorical question; but I wonder if anyone can throw a bit of certainty into the mix?

To quote another friend on vinylengine: "Tracking errors on the inner grooves at loud, high frequency's is one of the first signs of normal stylus wear. "

You should expect at least 300h of good sound. After that it won't sound as good as new. If it's not sounding as good as new, it's time for the replacement.

For more technical info, search the Vinylengine forum; we have discussed this topic many many times.

[strata]

Facts seem to be thin on the ground . Chris: where did you see your figure quoted? I've only been able to find oblique references in message boards, although I did come across one person who was using all sorts of microscopic techniques to analyse the wear on the stylus. I didn't really understand any of them to be honest, quite possibly because the person wasn't entirely sure what they themselves were doing: the explanations were not models of clarity.

Doesn't the DL103 have a spherical tip, Strata? If so, then its long life might be explained by Chris's observation that spherical tips, with a larger surface area, might tend to wear more slowly than a fine line stylus such as the one on my Goldring 2400 (which tracks at 1.8g on cleaned records).

It occurs to me that wear would also depend on the music being played: high dynamics would tend to throw the stylus around the groove far more than low ones, I suppose.

The DL 103 is 16.5 Micron round tip. You might boost the weight to 2.2 g for better tracking and IMHO better sound in all frequencies. The recommended weight is seldom the right one. There is quite a big margin to play with. 

[Nick]

Is it clean, how do you clean it?
Are your records clean, how do you clean?

Good questions. I think yes, the stylus is clean. I clean it with Last stylus cleaner (itself something of a no-no for some, I gather), and the Audio Technica vibrating machine cleaner: these I use about once a week. Looking at it under an 18 times magnifier, it appears clean, but obviously the devil is in the detail. I also have the densely bristled brush that came with the Last cleaner, and use that before each side is played.

As for the records, I use the good ol' Disco Antistat with the Knosti fluid, which for the last year or so has done the trick. I'm reasonably assiduous about these things, in that I keep a record of when a record was last cleaned, and reclean it once every couple of years, but I don't do anything except clean each side with a carbon fibre brush before playing it.

Recommended playing force for cartridge is 1.75 grammes; 1.8 sounds best to my ear.

But to sum up so far, from the various and helpful responses we have:

Estimated stylus "half lives" that vary from 300 to  more than 1000 hours;

The life of the stylus may be dependent on its profile, insofar as some have a larger surface area than others;

Cleanliness of both stylus and record is crucial to prolonging stylus life;

Tracking force and antiskate settings may also play a role.

The point of contention, if you can call it that, would seem to be the stylus life. Clearly a worn stylus will keep making music, but not as nicely. I'm assuming here that wear is steady and gradual, but I guess that at some point the contact surfaces could suffer relatively rapid failure once a stylus has worn to a particualr extent.

I shall take a look at some of the vinyl engine discussions as suggested, and keep following this thread.   

[GP49]

To quote another friend on vinylengine: "Tracking errors on the inner grooves at loud, high frequency's is one of the first signs of normal stylus wear. "

Pretty vague, considering that audible distortion on the inner grooves at loud, high frequencies is more often caused by worn or poor pressings.

[strata]

Pretty vague, considering that audible distortion on the inner grooves at loud, high frequencies is more often caused by worn or poor pressings.

Totally agree. Many records sounds best at the 2-4:th tracks, perhaps the tracking angle is at its best there.

[Nick]

Totally agree. Many records sounds best at the 2-4:th tracks, perhaps the tracking angle is at its best there.

That makes sense given the distortion curve for a pivoted tonearm. Tracks 2-4 are probably centred roughly about the outer zero distortion point, where the grooves are also relatively elongated compared with the centre of the disc.

Admin/Mods: Image is from SME's website: I'm not sure exactly what constitutes "fair use," so please tell me if I shouldn't have posted it, and I'll remove it.

[ChrisS]

Nick,

I was quoting from 'Pickups and Loudspeakers' by John Earl (Fountain Press, 1971). In addition, that closely matches what I was told by Expert pickups recently about a Decca Mark II pickup, which has a spherical stylus tracking at 3 grams: about 1600 sides. It's reasonable to allow 20 minutes for an average side.

Chris

[Nick]

Thanks Chris - sounds like an interesting book.