Stanton LZS and Pickering XLZ

[Kent T]

I once had a Stanton LZS. Superb cartridge. I wore out my stylus and couldn't get another replacement back in the day. I wound up replacing it with a 681 EEE-S II and have been happy. I wish the A conical broadcast styli were still made. My favorite mono LP/45 single cartridge in daily use. I prefer Stanton 681 and 881 cartridges to any other. And that's coming from a broadcast engineer/disc mastering engineer who can have most any cartridge he desires.

[richard]

Kent wrote,

I once had a Stanton LZS. Superb cartridge. I wore out my stylus and couldn't get another replacement back in the day. I wound up replacing it with a 681 EEE-S II and have been happy. I wish the A conical broadcast styli were still made. My favorite mono LP/45 single cartridge in daily use. I prefer Stanton 681 and 881 cartridges to any other. And that's coming from a broadcast engineer/disc mastering engineer who can have most any cartridge he desires.

I usually don't reprint someone's entire post, but here, I'd like to address the entire concern, so I just did.
Kent, you probably know this already, but I'll contribute a memory jog anyway.

We are blessed with the services of Expert Stylus, in England. They can put an outstanding tip on a cantilever. They can even rebuild it if the cantilever is broken. They have long been the world's source of custom tips for archivists and transcribers.  I submit that they've probably re-tipped more Stantons than all other brands combined. They offer a wide assorments of standard and custom tips, including a range of parabolics.

As a broadcast cartridge for classical music, I prefer the 681SE needle to the "A" because it's a broad elliptical that can do justice to massed trombones. Having sat in the middle of orchestras, that sound is unmistakable to me. I was so impressed with this coming from a speaker that I phoned the radio station to find out which cartridge they were using. Like all the other Stanton "bests," it's gone.

Something I'd like to know, since I think that you may have done cutting work, is exactly how one uses the calibration figures that Stanton used to provide with their 681 cartridges (and the 881S). I know these calibration cards quite well, but because of the way that the results are expressed, they have no value, zero, for home use. I've been curious for a long time.

[GP49]

Thanks, Wout!

Similar specifications to the Pickering XUV/4500Q but the DC resistance differs a bit, 675Ω vs. 600Ω.

[Kent T]

The calibration figures are related to precise output with both channels driven on an oscilloscope and frequency response curves played back with a CBS Laboratories Test Record and curves on test instruments. AC Vacuum Tube Voltmeter, Tektronix oscilloscope, and Bruel & Kjaer plotter to confirm performance when required during broadcast station proof of performance tests biannually. The goal is for the same performance to be noted on station equipment tests of performance. Irrelevant now in most applications. Still expected in broadcasting use and when evaluating mastering lab playbacks on lathe playback arms to ensure accurate playback of masters.

[Kent T]

I do use Expert Stylus in England to retip my styli. They do excellent work (a little bit pricey but well worth it).

[richard]

Gene wrote,

...it would have cost nothing to make a Stanton equivalent.  I can't remember it, though.  Must have blinked as it came and went!

(One would have been the Stanton 780DQ.  But I cheated...looked it up, just now!  And even though I've now got a number for it, I cannot remember anything else!)

My "before 1979" Stanton professional catalog shows two CD4 cartridges.

I said "before 1979" because I don't know the year. Unlike some other cartridge manufacturers (will be nameless), Stanton was such an engineering company that instead of putting dates on their literature, they gave them engineering drawing numbers! Thus, I can only come up with a sort-of time frame unless I know for sure.

Both of these cartridges have similar specs, and I couldn't find significant differences between them. Within all the literature that I have, there are more than one set of listings for Pickering quad pickups, but the products are the same from one to another.  From what I can see, Pickering offered three models, one of which was probably better than Stanton's two. I'm pretty sure that the other Pickering pair was identical to Stanton's two. In terms of replacement styli, in Stanton, the needles were truly dead very early. The company seemed oriented toward playing these records with firm groove contact. Pressures were higher than their better stereo styli used. I wish that I could say more, but when quadraphonic died, it died deader than dead: ultra-dead.

Another curiosity: the later Pickering XSV/5000 comes with alternate specifications for playback of CD4 records. Its needle is a Stereohedron, and scuttlebutt has been that the needle works fine for decoding CD4 records. So, we have confirmation from two different sources that it works just fine. This is the only Stanton stereo produce for which any sort of CD4 claim was made, and it was only made in passing, in the specs of a single tear sheet: an ordinary "take one" printed advertisement. I've never seen one of these cartridges, which had no Stanton equivalent.

[MrRogers]

Is a Syrinx PU2 or PU3 tonearm a good match for the 980LZS and 881s?

Has anyone tried this combination?

Any comments welcome?

[MrRogers]

Is the Paratrace diamond, from the Expert Stylus & Cartridge company, equal to or better than the Stereohedron?

[richard]

Mr. Rogers asked,

Is the Paratrace diamond, from the Expert Stylus & Cartridge company, equal to or better than the Stereohedron?

It is impossible to give a meaningful "yes" or "no" reply to this question.
Let's start with this fact: there is no such thing as one perfect needle for all long playing records. Even in a comparison in which all the records are in perfect condition, record cutting standards changed over time. Thus, a perfect stylus for a stereo record cut in 1963 won't be the same as a perfect stylus for a record cut in 1983.

Further, there were two distinctly different Stereohedron (tm) designs: the first profile, and the Stereohedron II. These names weren't marketing buzz words: Stanton was an engineering-driven company: they held patents on each of the two designs. I'll describe them, loosely, as "first generation" and "second generation" parabolic tips. The Company was not inclined to make super-performing needles that obtained their sonic quality at the expense of record life.

There comes a point in many aspects of high fidelity sound when improvements are meaningless. Sometimes, a stylus can be outstanding at reproducing sounds that are not present on the records in the first place. I have worked in recording studios where response above 15,000 Hz was filtered out. A person should always concentrate upon obtaining satisfying reproduction of the records that he likes to listen to. It's possible that you'll get more joy from an ordinary conical needle.

The Stereohedron II delivers a little more tip life than does the original. It is a bit fussier about vertical tracking angle/stylus rake angle alignment. They are both outstanding needles.

Consider this:
- I don't think that any Stereohedron styli have been manufactured for 15-20 years.
- I have no idea whether the final production of Stereohedrons were genuine Sterereohedron diamonds, or just ordinary excellent parabolic tips purchased from other diamond producers.
- The Paratrace (tm) is probably an outstanding tip for stereo records. I don't see any reason why one should not trust the claims of Expert Stylus about this, or any other of their tips. This is the go-to company for professional archivists and transcribers, and has been so for decades.
- You may be just as happy with an "ordinary" parabolic tip as with a super-advanced design such as a Gyger, van den Hul, or Paratrace.

You haven't mentioned which cartridge and/or Stanton/Pickering stylus that you want to re-tip or replace. If your needle is for a tall samarium-cobalt cartridge system, and it is the correct needle for the body, your best choice will probably be a re-tip from Expert.

(c) 2010 Richard Steinfeld
PS: I keep saying that I'm almost finished with my Stanton/Pickering cartridge handbook. I'm almost finished with it.

[MrRogers]

Mr. Rogers asked,

It is impossible to give a meaningful "yes" or "no" reply to this question.
Let's start with this fact: there is no such thing as one perfect needle for all long playing records. Even in a comparison in which all the records are in perfect condition, record cutting standards chnaged over time. Thus, a perfect stylus for a stereo record cut in 1963 won't be the same as a perfect stylus for a record cut in 1983.

Further, there were two distinctly different Stereohedron (tm) designs: the first profile, and the Stereohedron II. These names weren't marketing buzz words: Stanton held patents on each of the two designs. I'll describe them, loosely, as "first generation" and "second generation" parabolic tips. The Company was not inclined to make super-performing needles that obtained their sonic quality at the expense of record life.

There comes a point in many aspects of high fidelity sound when improvements are meaningless. Sometimes, a stylus can be outstanding at reproducing sounds that are not present on the records in the first place. I have worked in recording studios where response above 15,000 Hz was filtered out. A person should always concentrate upon obtaining satisfying reproduction of the records that he likes to listen to. It's possible that you'll get more joy from an ordinary conical needle.

The Stereohedron II delivers a little more tip life than does the original. It is a bit fussier about vertcal tracking angle/stylus rake angle alignment. They are both outstanding needles.

Consider this:
- I don't think that any Stereohedron styli have been manufactured for 15-20 years.
- The Paratrace (tm) is probably an outstanding tip for stereo records. I don't see any reason why one should not trust the claims of Expert Stylus about this, or any other of their tips. This is the go-to company for professional archivists and transcribers, and has been so for decades.
- You may be just as happy with an "ordinary" parabolic tip as with a super-advanced design such as a Gyger, van den Hul. or Paratrace.

You haven't mentioned which cartridge and/or Stanton/Pickering stylus that you want to re-tip or replace. If your needle is for a tall samarium-cobalt cartridge system, and it is the correct needle for the body, your best choice will probably be a re-tip from Expert.

(c) 2010 Richard Steinfeld
PS: I keep saying that I'm almost finished with my Stanton/Pickering cartridge handbook. I'm almost finished with it.

D81s for a 881s Mkll

[richard]

For the D81S II, you have four choices, which I think you already know.

1. Try to find an original and bid your heart out. A Pickering needle for their XSV-4000 will probably be a perfect replacement, too.
2. It's possible that an aftermarket imitation may be satisfactory because this is one of the two samarium-cobalt models that were popular enough for the aftermarket people to get right magnetically. However, note that there were fine details in these stylus assemblies that were covered under patent. It's doubtful that the aftermarket procucers will get this part right.
3. Buy a parabolic re-tip from Expert.
4. Buy a Paratrace re-tip from Expert.

To obtain the original sonic balance, no other substitutes should be made (except for other styli originally made for that particular body. I'm not going to go into this further here.).

[MrRogers]

I have two D81s ll. One new, I bought as NOS a month ago and another one with about 10 hours use. I have a used D81s in need of a re-tip so the only consideration is

3. Buy a parabolic re-tip from Expert.

or

4. Buy a Paratrace re-tip from Expert.

Incidentally, how many hours of use can I expect from a

1. Stereohedron?

2. Paratrace?

[richard]

...how many hours of use can I expect from a

1. Stereohedron?
2. Paratrace?

Sorry: too many variables. As in <50 hours for records with glass dust, 1,000 or more for spotlessly clean ones. Expert may be able to give you figures for their own needles. Anything will be very approximate.

[brownemi]

I recently bought a 885LZS which was apparently NOS. It turned up today looking like such other than the attached stylus is a D6800EL. Obviously the EL stands for th eliptical and not the stereohedron needle- D88s I thought I was buying. Firstly, is this stylus suitable and if so how much difference would there be with the lesser stylus- pure opinion is fine? I listen mainly to bass heavy rock/electronic 80's style music. thanks Michael

[MrRogers]

I recently bought a 885LZS which was apparently NOS. It turned up today looking like such other than the attached stylus is a D6800EL. Obviously the EL stands for th eliptical and not the stereohedron needle- D88s I thought I was buying. Firstly, is this stylus suitable and if so how much difference would there be with the lesser stylus- pure opinion is fine? I listen mainly to bass heavy rock/electronic 80's style music. thanks Michael

I have both the D98s and D88s and I can't hear any difference.